tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post4876595890231888484..comments2024-01-29T08:21:19.450+03:00Comments on Oderint Dum Probent: Battle of Systerback, 9/19 July 1703Gromoboyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-88292234077752461092014-04-16T18:37:55.269+04:002014-04-16T18:37:55.269+04:00I agree with you that the proportion of losses loo...I agree with you that the proportion of losses looks strange. And we both know how accurate were Swedes & Russians in their official relations :).Gromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-51800781220747686262014-04-16T10:14:29.569+04:002014-04-16T10:14:29.569+04:0032 killed on one side and 502 on the other. That&...32 killed on one side and 502 on the other. That's 1:15.7, which would be similar to Fraustadt and much worse than Poltava. I doubt that's possible as Cronhjort's army by all accounts retreated in an orderly fashion. Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-31786454478049253202014-04-15T23:26:15.218+04:002014-04-15T23:26:15.218+04:00502 dead and 237 wounded sounds extremely strange...502 dead and 237 wounded sounds extremely strange. I wonder if the dead and wounded horses possibly got mixed up in this as they are included in some of the accounts.Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-26206385919063475302014-04-15T14:58:21.391+04:002014-04-15T14:58:21.391+04:00if I am not mistaken, old Walkisaari is a modern B...if I am not mistaken, old Walkisaari is a modern Beloostrov on Syster river. I believe, it's marked "g" on the map from KrigsarkivetGromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-37111586665114467202014-04-15T12:25:09.728+04:002014-04-15T12:25:09.728+04:00There are a few other bits of information in the c...There are a few other bits of information in the correspondence of County Governor Lindehielm:<br /><br />On the 10th he wrote that he had previously sent the engineer Stobaeus to the army as an expert on fortifications. Stobaeus had returned late on the 9th with the report that the enemy at 6 in the morning attacked Swedish units who were collecting fodder at Walkisaari. The enemy had pursued to Systerbäck, where a fight started. It had continued until 2 p.m. when the enemy attacked (particularly through the forests) with a large force. As there was no place to put the army in a regular battle line Cronhjort had decided to fall back.Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-54801271182759762292014-04-15T10:04:29.183+04:002014-04-15T10:04:29.183+04:00I don't know of any detailed list from July, b...I don't know of any detailed list from July, but there is one from early September when Maydell took over command:<br /><br />Cavalry & dragoons<br /><br />Finska Adelsfanan<br />Tiesenhausens regemente<br />Åbo trippleringen<br />Nylands regemente<br />Viborgs regemente<br />Vellingks dragoner<br />Finska lantdragoner<br /><br />Infantry<br /><br />Mellins regemente<br />Åbo fördubbling<br />Tavastehus läns fördubbling<br />Nylands fördubbling<br />Vellingks regementeBengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-58757528152840391922014-04-15T00:54:50.001+04:002014-04-15T00:54:50.001+04:00Do you have any ideas about Cronhjort's troops...Do you have any ideas about Cronhjort's troops? According to a list of officers he had the following troops:<br />- Estlandska Rytters (Tiesenhausen)<br />- Nyland-Tavastahus fordubling Rytters<br />- Nyland fordubling infantry battalion<br />- Vyborg fordubling infantry battalion <br />- Tavastahus fordubling infantry battalionGromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-48319051057732637872014-04-14T23:56:26.596+04:002014-04-14T23:56:26.596+04:00Well, they are but not as detailed as in the attac...Well, they are but not as detailed as in the attachment to Cronhjort's letter as it for example gives the names of every killed and wounded officer.Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-19220282662015323262014-04-14T22:48:32.800+04:002014-04-14T22:48:32.800+04:00Losses are in H. Horn's letter. It's the n...Losses are in H. Horn's letter. It's the next document. As far as I understand, Cronhiort forces created 2 lines near village Joutselcke (marked C on the map?). Russians formed 8 lines. Each dragoon regiment was of 2 battalions/squadrons? Also Cronhiort wrote, that his cavalry repulsed repating Russian attacks for 4 (!) hours. <br />An other interesting moment: Cronhiort wrote that he was opposed by mounted Tzar's guard on white horses with white standardsGromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-45311168078896963332014-04-14T22:38:38.938+04:002014-04-14T22:38:38.938+04:00You are welcomed! :) The next will be Jungfernhoff...You are welcomed! :) The next will be JungfernhoffGromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-64951038249895981232014-04-14T22:37:58.449+04:002014-04-14T22:37:58.449+04:00Yes, i know. Although the attachment containing de...Yes, i know. Although the attachment containing details about the Swedish losses is not included.. Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-42658375143414496872014-04-14T21:47:00.784+04:002014-04-14T21:47:00.784+04:00Do you know the following source: Koskinen, Handli...Do you know the following source: Koskinen, Handlingar till upplysande af Finlands öden under det Stora nordiska kriget<br />It's avalable on-line here:<br />http://books.google.ru/books?id=Iy1YAAAAcAAJ&source=gbs_book_other_versions<br /><br />The Cronhiort's relation about Systerback is on page 85Gromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-61427690621255039222014-04-14T18:53:21.904+04:002014-04-14T18:53:21.904+04:00Thank you so much Gromoboy for putting up this pos...Thank you so much Gromoboy for putting up this post! Fantastic! It answered so many questions about the battle for me! Really kind of you!Gustavus Adolphushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03472367346472795698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-69864488537908206032014-04-14T01:54:29.931+04:002014-04-14T01:54:29.931+04:00Major Leyon belonged to the infantry. He was the s...Major Leyon belonged to the infantry. He was the same Leyon who had been sent sent to Nöteborg in 1702.<br /><br />As for the strength of the Russian army Cronhjort in his report claimed that "it cannot be doubted the enemy strength at the very least was above 50,000 men as he had 40,000 at Nyen and for three days had been collecting forces from every corner of Ingria." So in his view the retreat was both necessary and skillfully conducted. Of course at that point he had already been sacked, but his successor did not arrive for another month.Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.com