tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post6928052243305287325..comments2024-01-29T08:21:19.450+03:00Comments on Oderint Dum Probent: Russian troops in Ingria, Sept. 1708Gromoboyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-24489447150846918552022-03-20T16:56:00.144+03:002022-03-20T16:56:00.144+03:00Не подскажете, есть ли какой-то консенсус на текущ...Не подскажете, есть ли какой-то консенсус на текущий момент по сражению под Копорьем с пятью полками?Dmitryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15779965403339219166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-55386955118777239352015-04-13T00:20:01.855+03:002015-04-13T00:20:01.855+03:00Well. "five dragoon regiments" does not ...Well. "five dragoon regiments" does not perhaps necessarily mean that every soldier from five dragoon regiments were present. The above list of dragoon regiments in Ingria in September names five. <br /><br />And again - the Swedes clearly captured a number of letters to Fraser at Koporie (the capture of some letters kept in a coat owned by Fraser is mentioned by Whitworth as being reported to him by Cruys). <br /><br />So what was Fraser's coat doing at Koporie if he was at Duderhof? Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-4172723165690767492015-04-11T23:47:47.762+03:002015-04-11T23:47:47.762+03:00The placement of regiments is easy to check. Narva...The placement of regiments is easy to check. Narva, Olonetck & Tobolsk Dragoons were in Bauer Corps on Dnepr. Only small detachments were with Apraxin. No any other troops were in Ingria. Ingermaland Dragoons arrived in the end of September or beginning of October <br /><br />I always try to be an impartial & compare all available sources from both sides. Wolthert on 17 May 1708 was a fake Russian victory. The same with a Swedish victory in unknown battle of Koporie. Gromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-36261575986201225662015-04-11T15:21:14.045+03:002015-04-11T15:21:14.045+03:00Well, 8 Russian prisoners were captured at Koporie...Well, 8 Russian prisoners were captured at Koporie and it's their statements which form the basis for Swedish reports about the size of the opposing force. It should also be noted that the Swedes apparently captured a substantial number of letters to Brigadier Fraser from R. Bruce and other high officials. Why would such material be present among a small Russian detachment?<br /><br /><br />Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-89487910107227409252015-04-10T01:13:18.134+03:002015-04-10T01:13:18.134+03:00Была небольшая стычка конных партий. Судя по тому,...Была небольшая стычка конных партий. Судя по тому, что у шведов был аж целый полковник - то видимо крупный отряд шведов разгромил роту или две драгун, высланных на разведку. От пленных шведы узнали о составе войск Апраксина, в т.ч. о наличии драгун из 5 полков. А дальше Рамсей записал в реляции, что все 5 полков и погромил, вместе с полком казаков - чего их диких ортодоксов считать-то... Наши примерно также приукрасили бой у Волферта в мае того же 1708 г. (см в разделе 1708 campaign)Gromoboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14513137327707308631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-79493561964415416002015-04-09T16:59:17.312+03:002015-04-09T16:59:17.312+03:00I have today looked at Lybecker's account, the...I have today looked at Lybecker's account, the lettes that were captured and the minutes of the interrogation of prisoners. I'll be back in a few days with a summary of what this material indicates.Bengt Nilssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15416057529387059704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1007632461892109454.post-23588227173984927952015-04-09T12:51:45.135+03:002015-04-09T12:51:45.135+03:00Логично бы предположить, что или подразделения чет...Логично бы предположить, что или подразделения четко различались внешне (так что со стороны можно было заключить о наличии 5 разных подразделений), либо просто действовали каждый отдельно (= те же 5 подразделений), либо шведы тупо опросили пленных и пришли к выводу о наличии против 5 драгунских полков. В общем, приврали во всех случаях. Максhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833404416421813799noreply@blogger.com